Visual kei is dead! (at least on youtube)

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

It all started about 5-7 years ago. Youtube was a great place to get to know a lot of good and new Vk bands. There were many people uploading their own stuff (full songs, subs, different types of complilations etc….)

But nowadays it seems like Vk is pretty much dead on youtube. And I really miss the old times when there was something like a small Vk youtube community.

 

I started years ago uploading some compilations (the most popular was probably the one titled “top 10 most BRUTAL Vk bands”)…

Then I uploaded full songs of Vk releases which weren’t available to download.

Some years later I uploaded some cd collection updates but it seems like no one cares anymore for it. Nearly no one is commenting on anything, nor uploads something etc…

You can consider it a good day for Vk when there are more than 5 new videos which is extremely pathetic compared to other youtube communities like Kpop, death metal or whatever.

 

So what do you think?! Is Vk dead when it comes to youtube?

Sure official band channels are still using it but besides that I am talking about us, the “normal” listeners. Are people only interested in downloading everything immediately or why do you think it happened that there’s practically no youtube community anymore when it comes to Vk? Do you wish it would be still the same like some years ago?

I personally think its kinda sad because I really enjoyed it back then when there were a lot of different uploads, a lot people commenting etc…

 

So yea, I don’t know if this is an interesting topic to discuss but lets see how it’ll turn out.

[Zeus 7997]

I think you're forgetting something called copyright.

[blackdoll 907]

I think you're forgetting something called copyright.

ppl get annoyed having to fucking make new accounts every fucking 1-3 weeks. with deathmetal, the bands be like "thanks for sharing are stuff," so that's why it's cool. and k-pop has twerking soo yeahh.

Edited August 16, 2014 by blackdoll

[doombox 4421]

I've been feeling like the vk scene in general has been slowly dying out for a while, and people have been losing interest since new bands barely last a month anymore. It's hard to keep subscribers if you don't have many bands to post that continually draw people in. And if YT channels aren't getting views/likes/subs from the content then they don't bother posting those type of things. And when there's not readily available content then a lot of people stop caring. Half the time even joining a community such as MH is too much work for a casual fan. So they move onto Kpop, or Jpop or whatever else is easy to find and fills their time. It becomes a vicious cycle. 

 

The scene has changed so much from what it was a few years back. I remember some bands were together 2-3-4 years before any foreign fans ever heard of them, and the artists themselves (unless on a major label) never bothered posting on global sites like Youtube. Everything was fan posted content. Once the indies started posting their own, and labels started reporting the fan channels everything got harder and we started to only get CMs for videos or "short ver" of the videos. I think people find those things annoying. And it cut down the fan to fan contact, replacing it with one-sided artist to fan advertising. So the community as a whole became more distant and had less reasons to talk to each other. And now with bands lasting such a short while, it leaves people a bit lost and unmotivated to keep repeating the cycle for little to no satisfaction. 

 

I run a jrock video blog for the last two years and while I can tell you the vk fans are loyal (I tend to see the same people liking the videos) but the visual kei videos don't get half of the attention as some of the others because A.) some companies now block viewers from outside of Japan, and B.) they rarely post official full versions of the videos (then proceed to report anyone else who uploads the full version). It's like they are purposefully trying to kill their own international fanbase. It's sad.

[kurenaishineek 646]

You know japan is an ever changin enviorment , and one of my favorite music critics said that japan is a weird country with one of the most commercial and sweet music scene , but also as the other side of the medallion they have one of the most brutal and heaviest metal scene out there .In the older days visual kei was popular more cause it was mostly the heaviest music you get , now VK is reaching too much for commercialization making more melodic and easy "metal" than the real deal so ppl dont reall get to like this that much . Also the VK artist are getting greedier more and more , and most of them see youtube as another "Legal" piracy platform .

[JukaForever 758]

B.) they rarely post official full versions of the videos (then proceed to report anyone else who uploads the full version). It's like they are purposefully trying to kill their own international fanbase. It's sad.

 

That is probably to protect the incentive for fans to buy the edition of the release with the PV included. Why would anybody buy a PV when it is already available? A short preview is good enough IMO.

[sai 868]

The PVs actually get sold with limited editions of the releases, so that's why these PVs hardly make it to YouTube in full, and if they do, it's usually 5-6 months after the release by the official YT channel. K-pop never includes the MVs in their album packages, thus they always get uploaded on YT in full. Pretty much all bigger K-pop record companies have a YT account though, so that means at least stuff is going to be put on YT for you to see. A lot of Japanese artists don't have an official YouTube, so if there's even a preview on YouTube you're considered lucky. Do it yourself, and you've got a copyright strike.

 

That gives me another something that annoys me: the quality of the video. Like I know if you're generous enough to put it on YT while you're also selling it, but seeing Japanese PVs in 360p is just depressing. At least K-pop has full HD 1080p videos, lmao.

[hitsuji-hime 211]

Oh, I thought this thread was about the new Youtube rule that would be affecting the indie visual kei bands.

 

Well, anyway, it does make sense that the current labels are pushing away their international fans. I mean, in the case of MERRY, I can only find a few PVs uploaded by Victor (when they were in Victor), and the rest can only be found in DailyMotion >>;; I assume most of their later PVs (and indies PVs I think) were removed for copyright, and there are only a couple PVs left uploaded by fans - which may stay there for a limited time before being axed by their current label or Kyo.

 

As for Lin, Kisaki is so greedy that he'd rather have all your monies before actually getting his fucking PV. >> Like, if you want the Sacred Xanadu PV, then you're gonna have to spend a certain amount of money at their webshop just to get that PV for free. You also have to do the same thing if you want live footage of their performances. That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, and I honestly have no idea if he did the same thing with first period Lin (even though their PVs are all over Youtube, so I doubt that).

 

Ugh, but yeah, the visual kei community isn't as strong as it was before, and it's really sad because there are some really talented musicians who work their asses off, and yet, their material can't be viewed by the world because of the labels blocking off the fans outside of Japan. Either that, or selfish people like Kisaki or Mana (who is thought to be blocking the livestream of Moi dix Mois' performance in Russia) just wanna place a buttload of restrictions before letting people have access to their content.

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

@Zess – You’re right, Copyright issues surely have a big effect on the situation. Didn’t thought about that in the first place. But then still why is youtube that dead but downloading is doing kinda well if that makes sense?...

also it’s mostly (like we all know) "bigger" bands who complain about that… if you upload something of a pretty much no-name band most don’t care/ don’t care if you don’t up the full thing…

And I was always a guy who is more like: better a “good” preview than nothing… but most foreign Vk fans share the mentality: fuck previews, we ONLY care for the FULL deal...

 

@kurenaishineek – Well I wouldn’t say Vk artists are getting greedier… a few def are and some others just jump on the bandwagon… it's just natural.

alone if you think about all that live distributed stuff. Sure it’s a pain in the ass for foreigners but I am pretty sure *at least I think so* that with every live distributed cd most bands just make a huge loss in their pockets…

[Zeus 7997]

@Zess – You’re right, Copyright issues surely have a big effect on the situation. Didn’t thought about that in the first place. But then still why is youtube that dead but downloading is doing kinda well if that makes sense?... and also it’s mostly bigger bands who complain about that… if you upload something of a pretty much no-name band most don’t care/ don’t care if you don’t up the full thing…

And I was always a guy who is more like: better a “good” preview than nothing… but most foreign Vk fans share the mentality: fuck previews, we ONLY care for the FULL deal...

Because there's a difference between distributed, anonymous file sharing websites and YouTube, owned by The God Of The Internet, who spends a lot of resources making sure illegal material doesn't appear there. I'm also pretty sure Google gets money under the table to do it as well, so there's incentives all around. There's even programs designed to scan audio and video for infringing material and even Twitch.tv is implementing it. It's incomparable.

Also, hell yeah give me the whole track. Why spend all that money filming a PV if you're not going to use it to promote your band?

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

 

 

Also, hell yeah give me the whole track. Why spend all that money filming a PV if you're not going to use it to promote your band?

 

i don't know if you got me correct on this one but i meant with most people don't care for previews, that for me if i see a good preview (means usually about 60-90 secs) and i liked it, i would go and buy it. but most people wouldn't until they got to know the whole thing.

that's also why so many people claim to be downloading first. because they want to know the full thing before spending money on it... sure previews can be misleading but if its a good one then they normally don't. for example if you are a fan of 'em, the new MEJIBRAY pv preview for their upcoming single in september... the preview is kinda short but from watching it you surely already know it's going to be a heavy song and not a ballad... so if you like heavy songs you don't essentially need to see more to be able to judge if you potentially like it or not. - so i don't think bands need to upload full pvs in the first place to promote themselfs in a better way.

[Zeus 7997]

Here's a question for you: why film a promotional video if you aren't using it to promote music?

The answer is, there is none! To expect people to buy the promotional video to see it defeats the purpose of it's design, which is to promote your music. You aren't supposed to be able to directly make money off of the PV. The money you put into the video either comes out of your budget for the album or is something you recoup when you make sales. It's called the cost of doing business. Sometimes it's necessary to spend money to make more money. If you do make money off of the PV, that's just a bonus.

That's why visual kei bands seem to run into so many monetary issues. They spend a lot of money up front to get their costumes, photo shoots, albums recorded, etc. and then expect fans to pay up front for everything. Here, pay up front for this ticket to get this live distributed song which didn't cost us a fraction of the cost we're charging you to get it! Here, pay for this promotional video so you can see the song that we're going to make you buy twice so you can get all of the music. Also, buy both editions and get some meaningless poster bonus too! But you have to buy them from Like An Edison only to get the deal! Like shit, I get that you need to recoup your losses but there are better ways to do it. I'll name a few below.

Why don't Japanese visual kei bands run an official YouTube channel where they can place all of their PV's (or hell, all of their music if they wanted), and some live performances and just make you sit through an ad first? That's extra money that doesn't cost them too much work to get. Why don't really indies independent Japanese visual kei bands put their releases on Bandcamp or iTunes and set a minimum price? There are lots of ways they can cut out the middleman and save themselves some serious cash, but they don't.

But yet it's expected that we should just shell out $40 for the music? It's 2014 music doesn't work that way anymore bb.

[VkBrutaliaN 1890]

Well imo if they just giving us a 20 second teaser of a pv it's still considered promotion i guess!? The only stupid thing would be if they would just giving you the 20 seconds on yt but then never release it anywhere...

 

But i gotta tell you i won't say anything on most of the rest you've said because it really is just opinion based so it would lead to nothing. - Also this here went pretty fast off topic imo since this whole discussion should be all about why youtube isn't anymore what it was some years ago when it comes to Vk. ;D

Beside that your idea of Vk bands running ads on their official yt channels is kinda good...  On the other hand how many people are using adblock?

Also how many bands would let you sit through a 30 seconds ad for just a 1 minute long video - if even?? XD

[Zeus 7997]

Well imo if they just giving us a 20 second teaser of a pv it's still considered promotion i guess!? The only stupid thing would be if they would just giving you the 20 seconds on yt but then never release it anywhere...

And a hell of a lot of bands do exactly this, both inside and outside of visual kei. Take Aldious for example. Find me an entire PV of Aldious on YouTube and I would be shocked. They put half to three-quarters of a PV up and they call that "being generous". They maintain their own channel too! It's difficult to find anything by Shiina Ringo and near impossible to find anything by Tokyo Jihen and they don't have an official channel at all. It all ties into the same topic of why "visual kei is dying" and why you don't see anything on YouTube. Bands (and/or their labels) only want you to see the PV on the disc that they sell it to you on and they only want you to hear the music if you bought it somehow. Any other way is unacceptable.

[doombox 4421]

That is probably to protect the incentive for fans to buy the edition of the release with the PV included. Why would anybody buy a PV when it is already available? A short preview is good enough IMO.

 

 

The PVs actually get sold with limited editions of the releases, so that's why these PVs hardly make it to YouTube in full, and if they do, it's usually 5-6 months after the release by the official YT channel. K-pop never includes the MVs in their album packages, thus they always get uploaded on YT in full. Pretty much all bigger K-pop record companies have a YT account though, so that means at least stuff is going to be put on YT for you to see. A lot of Japanese artists don't have an official YouTube, so if there's even a preview on YouTube you're considered lucky. Do it yourself, and you've got a copyright strike.

 

That gives me another something that annoys me: the quality of the video. Like I know if you're generous enough to put it on YT while you're also selling it, but seeing Japanese PVs in 360p is just depressing. At least K-pop has full HD 1080p videos, lmao.

 

I understand that is what they are attempting to do. And for a legit fan of the band, sure they'd be interested in buying the PV, but a lot of people (I'm not trying to make a general sweeping statement here), in my experience, find only a portion (and often not all that much actual music within said clip) not to enough to decide if they would indeed spend the money on the single in the first place. Most of the feedback I get on clips is rather negative. Maybe the companies would do well listening to what their audience wants instead of trying to milk their pockets dry, and they could actually make more money in the long run because they'd actually create more dedicated fans.

 

I also agree with the sentiment that a promotional video should be used to promote a release. Using YouTube to promote a CM of a PV on a CD+DVD limited edition you have to buy to watch seems a lot like putting a cart before the horse.

[JukaForever 758]

The confusion could be changed if they describe the video as an MV and short clips as PVs. English lost in translation I guess.

[doombox 4421]

The confusion could be changed if they describe the video as an MV and short clips as PVs. English lost in translation I guess.

Maybe, but really a music video is still a promotional tool in most of the western music industry. And as far as I know that's why in Japan they always called them PVs. I think that's why we're seeing a lot of "short version" being thrown around now.  As far as I know (feel free to correct me on this) selling individual music videos with releases is a fairly recent practice? Before I only ever really saw them on DVD releases where you got live/tour documentary style footage and a collection of music videos.

 

I literally just watched a "short ver" of UNiTE. that was an entire 30 seconds. I don't understand why they just don't call it a preview/clip. But this is how they want to do it now, I guess.

[Number Girl 48]

Yep, all the record labels threatening people and YouTube subsequently going on video purging/banning sprees might certainly have been the number one thing that's discouraged people from there for sure. For example, I remember when the Gackt fandom went into a panic because Gordie was literally removing any trace of existance of Gackt on YouTube, including clips of him appearing on Japanese television shows or things unrelated to his current solo project (like Malice Mizer) and fan/tribute videos simply tagged as "Gackt." People responded by continuously making new accounts and re-uploading the videos, but I could see after a while that doing that over and over again can be tiresome and wouldn't be surprised if people simply just gave up after a while. 

 

Also I concur with Zess - for a promotional video, they don't use it much as promotion and more as an extra money-milking component of the product/package they're trying to sell in the first place. It's even funnier when they try to pull it off with really shitty videos that literally add nothing of value (and, combined with the price, it probably even REMOVES value). 

 

You know japan is an ever changin enviorment , and one of my favorite music critics said that japan is a weird country with one of the most commercial and sweet music scene , but also as the other side of the medallion they have one of the most brutal and heaviest metal scene out there .In the older days visual kei was popular more cause it was mostly the heaviest music you get , now VK is reaching too much for commercialization making more melodic and easy "metal" than the real deal so ppl dont reall get to like this that much . Also the VK artist are getting greedier more and more , and most of them see youtube as another "Legal" piracy platform .

 

You may be a bit mistaken when you mention that visual kei used to be "the heaviest music you get." In the "old days" there were upbeat, poppy VK bands as well as VK that played heavy metal and punk. Also, I'd say there's a fair number of heavy bands still out there. (Of course "heavy" can be subjective). 

 

I think it's more because the visual kei niche has deviated from being a "movement" to being more focused on attracting a certain number of fans. Greed may be a part of it, but I wouldn't put the blame on the artists themselves. Some of them DO care about music and are just trying to find a way to make money and survive like the rest of us. More likely, it's the higher-ups that are probably responsible for a lot of the bullshit that's biting everyone, including the bands themselves, in the ass. 

[seikun 317]

Today most Visual Kei bands sound the same and their music (poppish and many times unispired, in my opinion) doesn't appeal to me.

 

Also, most Visual Kei bands have totally gotten rid of the dramatic performances and the shock factor behind the aesthetics that it feels there is not need for makeup and specific type of clothes anymore if they are not going to do anything with them apart from trying to simply look cute and fashionable.

[Sakura Seven 593]

Today most Visual Kei bands sound the same and their music (poppish and many times unispired, in my opinion) doesn't appeal to me.

 

Also, most Visual Kei bands have totally gotten rid of the dramatic performances and the shock factor behind the aesthetics that it feels there is not need for makeup and specific type of clothes anymore if they are not going to do anything with them apart from trying to simply look cute and fashionable.

 

lol

[lichtlune 915]

I think bands should have the full versions of music videos, live performances, comment videos, or what have you all on youtube for promotional purposes.  Full albums shouldn't be posted on youtube but pv's and some singles every now and again can only help the bands and scene in general in my opinion. 

 

But seeing as how the content belongs to the labels too I'm assuming there are restrictions on the bands. They can't just upload their videos on their own official pages because that wouldn't slide with the labels they're signed to. well that's what i think anyway.

 

The labels are only there to help create the content and milk it for all that it's worth. They could care less about the bands themselves. 

 

So what's even the point of having a record label anyway? can't bands just record and monetize their music on their own? I know there's some benefits to a label but it just seems that there are more drawbacks than gains at times. 

[Gaz 1097]

Today most Visual Kei bands sound the same and their music (poppish and many times unispired, in my opinion) doesn't appeal to me.

 

Also, most Visual Kei bands have totally gotten rid of the dramatic performances and the shock factor behind the aesthetics that it feels there is not need for makeup and specific type of clothes anymore if they are not going to do anything with them apart from trying to simply look cute and fashionable.

i remember we've already discussed this shit in another thread and came to the conclusion that people are just 2lazy2search for some good bands, whining about how shitty vk is nowadays.

 

the same about the shock factor. there is a proper thread about it. go and whine there. this thread is about jewtube and decrease of the vk videos there lately, in case you haven't read the OP-post.

 

about the topic: i kinda disagree about it because now some japanese bands learned how to use youtube themselves. i dont remember seeing any official channel of indie bands from mid or late 00's, not even saying about early 00's lawl. and people are rarely comment on bands' last.fm shoutboxes nowadays(talking about indie bands here). so i think it's not just a youtube problem but more like a decrease of the foreigner's interest in vk in general. 

[lichtlune 915]

 

about the topic: i kinda disagree about it because now some japanese bands learned how to use youtube themselves. i dont remember seeing any official channel of indie bands from mid or late 00's, not even saying about early 00's lawl. and people are rarely comment on bands' last.fm shoutboxes nowadays(talking about indie bands here). so i think it's not just a youtube problem but more like a decrease of the foreigner's interest in vk in general. 

There's got to be a reason though. Why aren't foreigner's interested in vk anymore? Is the music worse? is it youtube? I think the lack of interest is a combination of a few things. But I mean it makes sense that if the music industry in japan is tailor made and marketed exclusively to Japanese people essentially shutting off outsiders that there wouldn't be a foreign fan base. 

 

If there's no music to be discovered then there won't be a fan simple as that. 

 

I do think visual kei has lost its roots and soul but of course that's meant for another thread.

 

 

and also i don't think people use last.fm as much anymore. That isn't just visual kei or is it? i don't know. 

[seikun 317]

i remember we've already disscussed this shit in another thread and came to the conclusion that people are just 2lazy2search for some good bands, whining about how shitty vk is nowadays.

 

the same about the shock factor. there is a proper thread about it. go and whine there. this thread is about jewtube and decrease of the vk videos there lately, in case you haven't read the OP-post.

 

about the topic: i kinda disagree about it because now some japanese bands learned how to use youtube themselves. i dont remember seeing any official channel of indie bands from mid or late 00's, not even saying about early 00's lawl. and people are rarely comment on bands' last.fm shoutboxes nowadays(talking about indie bands here). so i think it's not just a youtube problem but more like a decrease of the foreigner's interest in vk in general. 

 

And why do you think there is less of Visual Kei on Youtube?

 

Is Visual Kei now as appealing as it used to be?

[Gaz 1097]

And why do you think there is less of Visual Kei on Youtube?

 

Is Visual Kei now as appealing as it used to be?

as been mentioned above it's the copyright bullshit. people aren't get motivated to upload full pvs just to have thier account taken down after few weeks. and seriously guys, who gives a fuck about vk pvs? same decorations, same room, different guys. it's good enough to check out the song and new look, but that's it. i myself rarely watch a pv for more than once (the only exception is favorite bands' pvs).